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What do you want to make?

Discussion in 'General' started by Adam, Oct 25, 2016.

  1. Adam

    Adam Developer Staff Member Moderator

    This is related to the SDK thread - but more general purpose.

    I'd like to know: what do you want to make, that you think isn't possible in space right now?

    This thread will be harvested for new feature ideas, and if something is possible right now - we should be able to tell you how.
  2. Cindy Bolero

    Cindy Bolero New Member

    Wonderful Worlds with Water

    There are many water kits loaded with features available that we're not able to use in Space. It would be cool if Space had its own water system that is versatile for the many ways water is integrated and used.

    1. Universal Water - Creators can develop scripted watercraft for Space-native water, and it reacts with proper float levels, a little buoyancy, perhaps a little splash on collisions, and other variables. It makes sense for there to be a standard water system for dealing with Space's (basic) watercraft scripts utilized by boat crafters, so crafts will work on water in regions whereever users are able to spawn a yacht, speedboat, canoe, kayak, floatie, etc. That is, if the region creator put the right water in their environment, that will react to watercraft products.

    2. River building (works on angles like down hills and mountains), instead of most rivers being just canals with level water. Ideally it would be nice if river mesh water surface shows directional flow. Content creators can get kits for making river and road meshes, but getting the features to work in Space is yet to be seen. I gave up on EasyRoads River Tool. Its borky. They left out River Tool as far as I can tell with EasyRoads V3. I'm waiting for another river tool developer to update his kit to Unity5 so I can test that. Its really just a shader that makes the water look like its flowing, right? But river with force is another thing. For now I'd be happy with water meshes that look like its flowing for now. Perhaps later other content creators will want rivers that are interactive.

    3. Beach Waves - Most likely beach waves and surfing waves are something content creators can produce and sell for either the Unity Space content creators, or casual in-world builders.

    4. Waterfalls - Mostly done with particles. Can be built in to water system as a component, or products content creators can provide in the store for casual in-world builders.

    5. Swimming Pools - Same "universal water" is needed for floaties and swimming animation products.
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016
  3. Adam

    Adam Developer Staff Member Moderator

    Interesting requests - I actually think a lot of these should be doable as editor extensions; I do agree on getting a nice universal water - (I've looked into things like Suimono which may go onto our whitelist) -- I'd like to have a "free" option though that was as-good-or-better than a lot of the other solutions out there.

    One of the big limits I find with a lot of the water packages is they don't tend to like the idea of water living on a few different planes; so rivers flowing downhill, connected lakes, etc tend to be problematic. It's something that can be done with editor extensions for the most part - although what I will look at adding is some components which allow the space water related systems (e.g. boat scripts, etc) to use any other water system (so probably a component which marks a surface as belonging to water)

    Then, ideally when I get a bit of time, I might dig into writing our own free template water system which you can modify, similar to the work I've done on Day/Night & Sky cycles.
    Aribeth likes this.
  4. Cindy Bolero

    Cindy Bolero New Member

    We can do without interactive rivers and can dress mesh parts with splash particles here and there. Think of custom river mesh objects from road-building kits, only the surface is animated water shader of some kind, instead of asphalt textures. It just needs to look like water flowing downhill or along a riverbank. Just trying to avoid cheesy looking water when the landscaping is such high quality
  5. Adam

    Adam Developer Staff Member Moderator

    Yeah, there isn't too much special about water itself - it's just got a fancy high def shader on it usually. But it'd be good to be able to build something of equivalence to modern game engines fairly easily.
  6. I'd love a version of the shoutcast streaming script that could perhaps play back through an audio source, so that it could have an audible range and spacialization and all that jazz ;)

    Cheers :)
  7. Lex4art

    Lex4art Member

    How about modern (DX11-only, x64-only) graphics assets and locations? For example: what will happen to visitor if I will use SEGI as main lighting system (it is DX11-only - without it location will be completely black or have way too damaged lighting).

    E.g. if person like me want decent graphics and don't care about users with outdated hardware/software - is it possible now? Or all locations specifications must be lowered to most weak chain link?
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
  8. Adam

    Adam Developer Staff Member Moderator

    Mostly possible now - we don't have SEGI currently in the pipeline, but I've been debating it once it gets a little more mature (right now I find it's not quite good enough yet), but absolutely if you want to build desktop-class only regions you don't have to support the weaker platforms. We have tried to give you automatic somewhat-elegant fallbacks for lower end users however; e.g. people on Intel chipsets don't get realtime SSRR reflections for example (we may be adding AO to that list actually as well, Intel graphics chips are astonishingly bad).

    Right now if you have shaders/etc that only run on high end systems it does tend to fallback gracefully; if your shaders have Fallback statements in them (e.g. they Fallback to Standard) those will be followed. I prefer content to be modelled with elegant fallbacks, but you can upload without them. I would also keep in mind, we will be adding VR support in the first half of this year - for that, you do need to treat the content like a weaker system too as maintaining a solid 90-120fps tends to be incompatible with 'ultra high end content.'

    That said, I am keen to see what you make/upload (especially in light of that other thread)!
  9. Trilo

    Trilo Active Member

    I'd imagine that if you make DX11 only assets/locations, you're actively choosing (and taking extra steps) to make content that does not work for a large portion of the userbase (most mobile users and many desktop users). Unity does a fairly good job of being hardware agnostic, as do a lot of Unity Asset Store toolmakers (supporting DX, Metal, and GL), so that you just focus on making great content... the Unity engine handles the details of how it works on other platforms.
  10. Adam

    Adam Developer Staff Member Moderator

    Yep - actually you have to really go out of your way to lock those other weaker platforms out actually. Unity has a lot of cross-compilers, so things (mostly Shaders) designed for DX12 can be cross-compiled to OpenGL/Vulkan/Metal/etc.

    Edit: of course that does require the hardware to support it too - but it's easy to write the one-line "Fallback <shader>" in your shader (or "Fallback Off") to avoid the dreaded pink soup.
  11. Trilo

    Trilo Active Member

    For experiences where you want to focus on the high-end systems, you may also want to list the hardware recommendations on the region's splash screen. That can serve not only as a warning for those on lower end systems, but as a calling card to those with higher end kit who are looking for something that can take advantage of their gear.
  12. Lex4art

    Lex4art Member

    My point here: if in 2017 my Visitor have no DX11 hardware he has problems with money or just don't care about his own experience in 3D in general - not without exceptions but in most cases that means he has no money/interest to buy anything inside world, better get rid of people with that mind set. Modern games rejecting that kind of users - minimal system settings where "x32 + DX10" supported becomes extinct (only some of the game genres still not limited by old system specs, but creating x64 + x32 multiplayer world with user-created content (non-professional in most cases) is expensive task for any developer I guess). Sounds "racistic" but this is just generic focus on target auditory in business + as artist I'm also not satisfied with that kind of Visitors: with ancient hardware they simply can't see all my efforts in creating rich & high fidelity *lol* world, avatars, architecture... they will see only Second-life like glimpse of my work :(.

    Second thing is about DX11/x64 hardware is it did not equal "Expensive hi-end only" - it is mainstream, for last 4 years you can't buy non DX11 video card/non x64 processor even with lowest budget. So, if Visitor have only DX11 graphics integrated in cheap 120$ CPU - it will work for me, there is quality settings slider inside client app and all he need is just move it a bit till it scale down textures/shadow resolution/shader quality/visibility distance/LOD ratio for decent performance (all this stuff goes opaque for Visitor - only one slider to drag, simple and friendly enough).

    Last thing - with time there will be less and less users with old hardware, e.g. that auditory constantly shrinking....
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2017
  13. Adam

    Adam Developer Staff Member Moderator

    Actually it's not so much the hardware support - but operating system support. OSX's OpenGL drivers are quite out of date, and missing a lot of DX11-level features. We'll be adding Metal-on-MacOS with the 5.6 update which should even it out - but that tends to be the bigger issue.
  14. 8-bit Biologist

    8-bit Biologist New Member

    I think this is the right place for this - I'm looking to build a learning environment that has both a larger, communal space for students to congregate in and interact, but separate, discrete quest areas where they do learning activities. Much like, say, WoW, once they get to the mouth of the cave or whatever, it would take them to a smaller, discrete learning area separate from the larger, communal world. Now this is the tough part - the larger, communal area is pretty simple, with NPCs and some dialogue, etc, but it can be kept light from a memory stand point. However the learning areas, even though small, might be quite complex. Lots of scripting, moving parts. For these to work they would either need to spawn separately each time someone approaches the trigger point (e.g. mouth of the cave) so each student can have a separate experience, or I'll need to have several separate copies made and have a script that teleports the user to an unoccupied version. Either way, I don't see a single region supporting both the larger common area, and all the multiple copies of learning areas. Anyways, it's part of what I'll be working through to try to make this all work but suggestions or maybe a feature to allow for this would be wonderful!
  15. Adam

    Adam Developer Staff Member Moderator

    Hey there - something to consider there might be breaking it apart a bit; and using region shards to handle the 'blank copies'. That'd also help with memory use if WebGL is your primary target. If you haven't had a chat with Rohan or Sean yet - I'd also advise poking them (rohan@sinewavecompany.com / sean.c@sinewavecompany.com) as they head-up our Educators group. :)
  16. 8-bit Biologist

    8-bit Biologist New Member

    Thank you so much Adam! I spoke briefly with Sean over e-mail but haven't heard back. I'll poke him again. I am hoping to have something to show other teachers by next year, and then take to conferences to present on. Sine Space is the first VW to overcome a huge hurdle and that is the browser piece. It has the most promise to run on Chromebooks and that in turn puts it into a majority of classrooms. It outdoes High Fidelity and Sansar in that respect. I've designed a Biology curriculum in OpenSim in the past, but the need for a client to view limited distribution. I've been eagerly awaiting such a product so I can then design a fun way for kids to learn, then start getting it out there in the hands of teachers.

    I have not come across this concept of "region shards" in the Wiki or my brief time learning about Unity. Could you provide a link that might explain that further? It sounds promising for what I'm trying to do. Thanks again for your help!

  17. Adam

    Adam Developer Staff Member Moderator

    Shards basically refers to some occupancy handling we do - if a region is too full, we spin up a copy of it automatically, if you're paying for the sharding feature. You could set the region to have a maximum occupancy of '1' which'd spawn a fresh copy for each user.
  18. 8-bit Biologist

    8-bit Biologist New Member

    OK, I guess I need to get deeper into Unity. More used to Unreal. The goal is to set up a communal area where folks spawn into in my region. From there they could tp to individual experiences that would instance for each user. These shards. Do each of these individual experience need to be a separate region? Or can the same region support a communal landing zone and separate, single user experiences? How would you build that? I see in Unity that you can have multiple scenes but I didn't know how that translated in Sine Space.
  19. Adam

    Adam Developer Staff Member Moderator

    For the shards, the 'template' for each experience would need to be a separate region; and yes - in Unity a single scene can translate into a region directly. :)

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